From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov Transcript for: Law Enforcement Excessive Use of Force Description: George Floyd's death in May 2020, as well as other highly publicized deaths, have raised questions and concerns about law enforcement's use of force, including excessive force. The Department of Justice monitors use of force and provides some resources to reduce it. We find out more about DOJ's efforts GAO’s Gretta Goodwin. Related GAO Work: GAO-22-104456, Law Enforcement: DOJ Can Improve Publication of Use of Force Data and Oversight of Excessive Force Allegations Released: December 2021 [Music:] [Gretta Goodwin:] The Department of Justice itself has noted that excessive force incidents can erode public trust in law enforcement and hamper the effectiveness of law enforcement. [Holly Hobbs:] Hello and welcome to GAO's Watchdog Report, your source for news and information from the U.S. Government Accountability Office--celebrating 100 years of fact-based, nonpartisan government oversight. I'm Holly Hobbs. George Floyd's death in May of 2020, as well as other highly publicized deaths, have raised questions and concerns about law enforcement's use of force, including excessive force. While much of law enforcement is at the state and local level, the Department of Justice plays an important role in monitoring the use of force and provides some resources to reduce it. Today, we'll find out from Gretta Goodwin, an expert in federal law enforcement and a director in our Homeland Security and Justice team. Thanks for joining us. [Gretta Goodwin:] Happy to be here, Holly. [Holly Hobbs:] So Gretta, let's start with a basic question. What's the difference between force and excessive force? [Gretta Goodwin:] So that's a really important question. So law enforcement officers may legally use force for a number of reasons, such as making an arrest or protecting themselves or others from harm. Now, if an officer uses more force than is reasonable under the circumstances, that would be considered excessive and may violate an individual's civil rights. At the federal level, DOJ’s Civil Rights Division may investigate systemic civil rights violations arising from law enforcement misconduct, and that includes the use of excessive force. The Civil Rights Division may also sue local law enforcement agencies for engaging in a pattern of conduct that deprives individuals of their constitutionally protected rights. Also, DOJ's U.S. Attorney's Offices can use federal criminal statutes to investigate and prosecute criminal violations of individual civil rights, and that could include excessive use of force by law enforcement. [Holly Hobbs:] And so how is the Department of Justice monitoring the use of excessive force? [Gretta Goodwin:] So there are several laws and congressional directives that assign DOJ the responsibility for collecting data related to law enforcement's use of force, including the force that's considered excessive. One of these laws is the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, which is known as the 1994 Crime Bill. Now, this requires the Attorney General to collect and annually published data on the use of excessive force by law enforcement officers. However, we found that between fiscal years 2016 through 2020, DOJ didn't publish an annual summary of excessive force incidents in each of those years. This was because DOJ officials did not assign roles and responsibilities for doing so. We also found that the Department faced delays in publishing other data related to use of force. So around 2016, the FBI initiated a new data collection effort to provide nationwide statistics. This data collection is called the National Use of Force Data Collection. It's a voluntary effort to collect and analyze data from federal, state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies. But due to insufficient participation by law enforcement, the FBI hasn’t met certain conditions that are set forth by the Office of Management and Budget for publishing data on use of force incidents. [Holly Hobbs:] Gretta, the Department of Justice is federal, but most law enforcement is state or local. What challenges does that create in getting the data? [Gretta Goodwin:] When FBI started this data collection effort, this was their attempt to obtain information nationwide. So they were reaching out to federal, state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies, asking that they input data into this database. This data collection includes information about any incident in which a law enforcement officer discharges a firearm at or in the direction of a person, or that results in death or bodily injury. For each incident, the FBI is also collecting demographic data, such as race, gender, ethnicity, and age of the officer and the individual involved. Because, FBI and DOJ is federal and this data collection is voluntary, the FBI had some difficulties getting the state, local, and tribal law enforcement agencies to participate in this study. [Holly Hobbs:] Gretta, what has participation been like? [Gretta Goodwin:] Participation has been, pretty low. In 2019 the participation rate was around 44%. Now, this is a challenge because OMB requires a 60% response rate. And the National Use of Force Data collection is scheduled to be discontinued at the end of 2022 if the participation rates are not improved. [Holly Hobbs:] And what did stakeholders tell us about the role or importance of this data? [Gretta Goodwin:] So Holly, I will say that stakeholders we interviewed--including law enforcement associations, civil rights organizations and academic researchers--they all underscored the importance of these data to improving the understanding of how to reduce excessive force. Now, representatives from one civil rights organization we spoke with told us that the data on the use of excessive force would help all levels of government, as well as independent civil rights organizations, and better understanding excessive force and informing changes to laws and policies as needed. Now, these representatives also told us that such data would improve transparency in law enforcement operations, which could inspire public trust in law enforcement. [Holly Hobbs:] So, Gretta, beyond the loss of life, incidents like these also damage the reputation of law enforcement. [Gretta Goodwin:] That's right. The Department of Justice itself has noted that excessive force incidents can erode public trust in law enforcement and hamper the effectiveness of law enforcement. For some communities where distrust has eroded, when they need law enforcement intervention, they may be reluctant to reach out for assistance, and that can exacerbate public safety concerns in their communities. [Holly Hobbs:] And beyond data collection, what is DOJ doing to reduce excessive use of force? [Gretta Goodwin:] So there are a few things that DOJ is doing. While DOJ doesn't have a specific grant program focused on reducing excessive force by law enforcement, we identified six programs that provided a portion of their grant awards for practices that may reduce law enforcement's use of force. These six grant programs represent about $200 million. We also found that DOJ provides funding for things like body-worn cameras, crisis intervention, de-escalation training, as well as providing for research on procedural justice for law enforcement agencies. Additionally, the FBI Civil Rights Unit provided training on federal civil rights statutes to more than 11,000 officers from fiscal year 2016 through 2020. [Music] [Holly Hobbs:] So, the Department of Justice collects data on law enforcement’s use of excessive force, which can be critical in determining where and when incidents occur, and how to reduce them. But participation by state and local law enforcement is voluntary and also lower than the required 60%, which could result in the discontinuation of this national data collection effort. So Gretta, did we make any recommendations to the Department of Justice or other federal law enforcement? [Gretta Goodwin:] We did, Holly, so we are making a total of 11 recommendations in this report--including four to the Attorney General, four to the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights, two to the Assistant Attorney General of the Office of Justice Programs, and one to the Director of the FBI. Now, five of these recommendations will help DOJ improve publication of relevant data. And six are aimed at improving its management of allegations of excessive force. [Holly Hobbs:] And last question, what's the bottom line of this report? [Gretta Goodwin:] DOJ can play a key role in reducing excessive force by collecting data on the use of force to support research and by pursuing civil remedies and criminal penalties against law enforcement officers who violate individual civil rights. While we found that efforts have been made in these areas, DOJ could improve its oversight to better realize its potential and addressing law enforcement misconduct, including excessive force. [Holly Hobbs:] That was Gretta Goodwin talking about GAO’s recent review of the DOJ's efforts to monitor and respond to law enforcement's use of force. Thanks for your time, Gretta. [Gretta Goodwin:] Thank you, Holly. [Holly Hobbs:] And thank you for listening to the watchdog report. To hear more podcasts, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen and make sure to leave a rating and review to let others know about the work we're doing. For more from the congressional watchdog, the U.S. Government Accountability Office, visit us at GAO.gov.