From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov Transcript for: Preventing Nuclear Smuggling through Foreign Seaports Description: Audio interview by GAO staff with David Trimble, Director, Natural Resources and Environment Related GAO Work: GAO-13-37: Combating Nuclear Smuggling: Megaports Initiative Faces Funding and Sustainability Challenges Released: November 2012 [Background Music] [ Narrator: ] Welcome to GAO's Watchdog Report, your source for news and information from the U.S. Government Accountability Office. It's November 2012. The potential to smuggle nuclear and radiological material through foreign seaports poses a security threat to the United States. In 2003, the National Nuclear Security Administration established the Megaports Initiative to prevent such smuggling. A group led by David Trimble, a director in GAO's Natural Resources and Environment team recently reviewed the status of the initiative as well as its benefits and the challenges it faces. GAO's Jeremy Cluchey sat down with David to talk about what they found. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] Can you talk a little bit about the Megaports Initiative? [ David Trimble: ] Sure. The Megaports Initiative was established by the Department of Energy in 2003, specifically by their National Nuclear Security Administration. The program's goal is to prevent radiological materials from falling in the hands of terrorists or countries seeking weapons of mass destruction. The program seeks to do this by installing radiological detection equipment at the foreign ports of these countries to scan inbound and outbound cargo for radiological materials. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] And so when we talk about megaports, we're talking about? [ David Trimble: ] A megaport is actually any of the ports that have received funding from the Department of Energy under this program. So in terms of the status of the program, they've established 40 megaports in 30 countries to date. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] And how about some of the benefits and challenges that you identified? [ David Trimble: ] Well the benefits, that's an interesting question because one of the findings in our report is that the Department of Energy has not established good metrics to document the program's effectiveness. Now having said that, the Department of Energy has documented that the program has interdicted, or the ports in the program have interdicted about 155 shipments—and this spans 13 countries—and that's radiological materials that have been intercepted that wasn't declared appropriately. So the program has had some accomplishments to date. In addition, the foreign officials that we met with who have participated in the program also cite a number of benefits and many of these countries have taken the initiative to fund with their own money additional radiological detection equipment to install at their own ports outside of this program. In terms of challenges, there's several. One I've mentioned the lack of performance metrics. There's been some challenges regarding collaboration across US government agencies. Specifically Department of Homeland Security operates similar programs and the agencies we think could be working better together. Long-term, the...there's an absence of a sustainability program or, within the Department of Energy to plan out what happens after the program, after this equipment is installed. Specifically the program calls for a three-year setup and training program in the country, but after that DOE needs to do a good job of figuring out what's going to happen going forward. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] You mentioned that you spoke with foreign officials at these megaports. Can you talk about some of the other ways GAO went about reviewing the status and impact of the initiative? [ David Trimble: ] Sure. Well in addition to reviewing the usual documents—budget documents, program documents, we visited eight megaports in five countries to talk to the host country officials and see the equipment in action. We, specifically we went to Belgium, Spain, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, and Panama. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] And what recommendations is GAO making in this report? [ David Trimble: ] We have five recommendations. One is addressing the need for a sustainability plan as I mentioned. Another for establishing performance measures that would help and enable decision makers assess and evaluate the effectiveness and the value of the program. Another to assess the level of collaboration across government agencies. And a couple others dealing with testing and deployment of radiation detection equipment. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] Finally, for taxpayers concerned about the potential for nuclear material to be smuggled through these foreign seaports, what's the bottom line here? [ David Trimble: ] Well, the program has made strong progress since its initial, its initiation in 2003. And again, as I mentioned, they've established 40 megaports in 30 countries. Going forward the challenge is that the FY 2013 budget calls for an 85 percent cut to the program's budget. So the program will be looking at moving from an expansion into additional ports to one of sustainability. [ Background Music ] [ Narrator: ] To learn more, visit GAO.gov and be sure to tune in to the next episode of GAO's Watchdog Report for more from the congressional Watchdog, the U.S. Government Accountability Office.