From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov Transcript for: A Review of Federal Agencies' Move to Cloud Computing Description: Audio interview by GAO staff with Dave Powner, Director, Information Technology Related GAO Work: GAO-12-756: Information Technology Reform: Progress Made but Future Cloud Computing Efforts Should Be Better Planned Released: July 2012 [ Background Music ] [ Narrator: ] Welcome to GAO's Watchdog Report; your source for news and information from the U.S. Government Accountability Office. It's July, 2012. Federal agencies are increasingly moving toward cloud computing which has the potential to deliver faster services at a lower cost to taxpayers. A group led by Dave Powner, a director in GAO's Information Technology team, recently reviewed agencies efforts to comply with the Office of Management and Budget's Cloud First Policy. GAO's Jeremy Cluchey sat down with Dave to talk about what they learned. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] Let's start out very basic. What is the cloud? [ Dave Powner: ] Well computing is basically on demand access to computer services. What cloud computing is, it allows you to acquire services without actually having the hardware associated with it or data centers that would host the data so that would all be hosted offsite. So, one good example would be e-mail services. There's agencies to date that have several e-mail services in-house and they maintain the hardware and the data associated with that. Some agencies are moving to cloud solution where they have a single e-mail service, but they don't maintain the hardware or the data associated with that—that's all done externally. So what it allows is a couple of key things that cloud computing allows. So first of all, it allows for faster delivery of services to various agencies. It's economical—many times purchasing services through the cloud is much cheaper than custom-built solutions. And then it's also flexible because you can also scale. So you can start small and then scale up because there's those resources, you know, both hardware and associated computing capacity, that these agencies who provide the cloud solutions can provide. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] And GAO undertook this review of agencies progress moving forward with OMB's Cloud First Policy. Can you explain this policy and what it means for agencies? [ Dave Powner: ] Yeah, the Cloud First Policy is tied to the overall IT reform approach. I mean basically with IT reform, we're looking at two major areas of improvement; one to improve large scale acquisitions; and two, to have operational efficiencies where we're saving money. So the cloud computing initiative falls within the operational efficiencies where we can save money. So what OMB required of all agencies was to take three services that they currently provide and to move them to cloud by June of 2012. And what we did is we looked at 7 agencies, a total of 21 services, and determined whether those 21 services were actually moved to the cloud by June of 2012. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] And what did you find? [ Dave Powner: ] Well we found that the agencies did a very good job moving those 21 services to the cloud. Of the 21, 18 were moved to the cloud; U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Small Business Administration. Department of Agriculture had one that did not and SBA had two services that were not moved by the June date, but they were planning to do those soon after the June 2012 date—so that was very good progress overall. Now, with that, this was really an initiative to learn about cloud computing—could we do it, what are the challenges, and those types of things? OMB also required that there would be plans associated with the migration so you would estimate the cost associated with the migration, you would have time frames, you would have performance metrics, and then you would also have a plan to retire systems because that's really where you get the cost savings. So we looked at the plans and the retirement plans. What we found is agencies came up short in the plans. So what we did is we had associated recommendations for them to look at the services that were migrated to determine whether there were cost savings associated with this because clearly there's an upfront cost of moving to the cloud, but hopefully that's offset even more so by the retirement of legacy systems. One good example is DHS. They're planning for migrating services to the cloud well beyond the three services that were required so that's what we would like to see with many agencies going forward, but also too, to clearly identify the cost savings because ultimately this is all about saving money. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] Your team also identified some common challenges among agencies in trying to move towards this Cloud First Policy by the June deadline. Could you talk about those challenges? [ Dave Powner: ] Yes. Some of the challenges with migrating to the cloud, first of all security—I mean you want to be very careful that we're not migrating information that is sensitive—so security is one of the challenges and we've issued some prior reports on the security implications of migrating to the cloud. Another one is certifying accrediting vendors to make sure that we have credible vendors that we're actually using to provide the cloud services. And then, a third key challenge is data portability. Do we want the flexibility of moving to another vendor down the road? [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] Finally, for taxpayers who are interested in how their agencies manage their information and how they're spending money, what's the bottom line here? [ Dave Powner: ] Well the bottom line with cloud computing and we get into this a lot with many of our reviews is there's a lot of duplication that's out there. So this is one effort to reduce duplication of federal agencies. It's also an initiative that allows you to provide services in a more cost-effective fashion. So between the cost-effectiveness of moving to the cloud and reducing duplication, ultimately we can do more with the taxpayer's money by moving to cloud solutions. [ Background Music ] [ Narrator: ] To learn more, visit GAO.gov and be sure to tune in to the next episode of GAO's Watchdog Report for more from the congressional Watchdog, the U.S. Government Accountability Office.