From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov Transcript for: Watchdog Report: Training and Equipping Foreign Police Forces Audio interview by GAO staff with Joseph Christoff, Director, International Affairs and Trade Related GAO Work: GAO-11-402R: Multiple U.S. Agencies Provided Billions of Dollars to Train and Equip Foreign Police Forces Released on: April 27, 2011 [ Background music ] [ Narrator: ] Welcome to GAO's Watchdog Report, your source for news and information from the Government Accountability Office. It's April 27th, 2011. During fiscal year 2009, federal agencies spent an estimated $3.5 billion on training and equipping foreign police forces. A group led by Joseph Christoff, a director in GAO's International Affairs and Trade team, recently reviewed this funding. GAO's Jeremy Cluchey sat down with Joseph to learn more. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] For the purposes of this report where you looked at assistance provided to foreign police forces, how did you define training and equipment and how did you define police forces? [ Joseph Cristoff: ] Well first, in terms of defining police forces, we had to work with the State Department to come up with the definition because there isn't a common definition that all of these seven agencies and 24 components use. So our definition working with State was: law enforcement units that have arrest, investigative, or interdiction authorities. So in Iraq and Afghanistan, those are the two big countries where we provide a lot of police assistance funding, that is focusing on literally standing up police civilian authorities and forces within those countries. Then you can look at a different gamut, you can look at our work in Colombia, where we're training police forces to try to help them interdict coca and to eradicate coca crops throughout the country and also to help those police forces better understand how to deter and prevent human-rights abuses. And then when you're talking about equipment, you're talking about a lot of stuff, you're talking about patrol boats, you're talking about airplanes, pistols, helmets, body armor, surveillance communications technologies along the border, so it's a lot of equipment and a lot of training everywhere around the world. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] What are some of the policy goals that prompt these federal agencies to train and equip foreign police forces in this way? [ Joseph Cristoff: ] Sure. Again getting back to Iraq and Afghanistan because I think they demonstrate one of our key foreign-policy goals; and that is we want to stand up police forces in both of those countries so they can provide for the internal security of their countries and, in effect, we can get the heck out. In other countries like in Central and South America, we're focusing on trying to improve their criminal justice systems, rule of law, and dealing with human-rights abuses as well. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] And in this report you found that 7 federal agencies spent about $3.5 billion on police-assistance activities in 107 countries in fiscal year 2009. Who were the biggest spenders in the U.S. federal government and which countries got the most assistance? [ Joseph Cristoff: ] Yeah, the big boys are State and the Department of Defense. And if you look at that 3.5 billion, 97% comes from those two agencies: $1.9 billion from DOD, $1.5 billion from State. In terms of which countries benefited from this police assistance, again it's some of the key countries where we have a lot of our foreign activities: Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and the two big countries where we have a lot of effort in coca eradication and law enforcement and that is Mexico and Colombia. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] How does this current funding level compare with past U.S. government spending on these activities? [ Joseph Cristoff: ] It's a big increase. Last time we looked at this issue and tried to come up with an inventory was back in 1990. And at that time, all federal agencies were spending about $180 million. So $180 million back in 1990 has increased to $3.5 billion in 2009; and by the way, that 180 is directly comparable to the 3.5 billion because we adjusted it for inflation. [ Jeremy Cluchey: ] So, we know how much is being spent and GAO plans to take a closer look at how it's being spent in a subsequent review. What sorts of areas might you look at in that report? [ Joseph Cristoff: ] Yeah, it took us a while just to come up with this inventory. We were surprised at how many federal agencies were involved in police-assistance activities, so the next step is to try to figure out how are they coordinating all of these different police-training activities and some of the key countries. And what's interesting if you look at the 107 countries there are 39 countries where both DOD and State are providing funding, and those 39 countries constitute $2.6 billion of that $3.5 billion total, so those really are the key countries that we want to focus on. Afghanistan, Pakistan, those are two countries in which both State and DOD spend a lot of money and I think it's important for the Congress and the American people to know “are we spending it well?” and “are we coordinating that effort successfully?” [ Background Music ] [ Narrator: ] To learn more, visit GAO's Web site at GAO.gov and be sure to tune in to the next edition of GAO's Watchdog Report for more from the congressional watchdog, the Government Accountability Office.